tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post8892316740654068311..comments2024-03-09T04:57:25.956+00:00Comments on HardKnott Dave's blog about stuff: The Ghost of Beer Past, Present and FutureAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-42619282707629167672010-09-28T14:32:36.561+01:002010-09-28T14:32:36.561+01:00Tyson, you might be right of course, but I've ...Tyson, you might be right of course, but I've only ever been in Sheffield Tap when it's busy. I'm told this is because it is always busy. I don't know for sure but I think they sell an equivalent amount of Japiur as your Wetherspoons example.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-21605728597128114602010-09-27T23:07:39.435+01:002010-09-27T23:07:39.435+01:00"but just consider; if Thornbridge Tap can..."but just consider; if Thornbridge Tap can't shift Jaipur fast enough for it to be in tip top condition all the time then who can?"<br /><br />That's assuming that brewery taps (1) sell the most beer (2) keep it the best. Not necessarily true in my experience. <br /><br />For example: Jaipur is better tested where it's a welcome guest and so flies out. My local Spoons had it as beer of the week and sold out of all 5 firkins in 3 days.Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-50472846542152588362010-09-24T09:18:07.066+01:002010-09-24T09:18:07.066+01:00For info: My post referred to above needs more wor...For info: My post referred to above needs more work on reflection.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-91242400886171197502010-09-23T05:43:46.332+01:002010-09-23T05:43:46.332+01:00Whew. Well, I have a truckload of comments. I'...Whew. Well, I have a truckload of comments. I'll just have to call you while you're in the tub or starting a mash or something and sort it out.Brewers Union Local 180https://www.blogger.com/profile/05786517873195170945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-53446681037474071672010-09-22T16:08:24.940+01:002010-09-22T16:08:24.940+01:00"I believe many cask beers are vented far too..."I believe many cask beers are vented far too much before they are served, resulting in them being flat before they ever see the pumps."<br /><br />A-bloody-men to that. So many pubs leave the beer completely fucked - and there is no other word for it - before it has even hit the customer's glass.<br /><br />Not wishing to steal your thunder, but I have a post on the subject which was written on 21/08 after I'd been to the Jolly Butcher - so I'll post it.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-72488093779411469082010-09-22T15:57:29.192+01:002010-09-22T15:57:29.192+01:00Tandleman, I agree cellar technicians are a big pr...Tandleman, I agree cellar technicians are a big problem for all forms of dispense. Some fail to understand that cask needs correct temperature control right to the handpull. "It's only trad beer" is a phrase I've heard, as if it should be warm and flat.<br /><br />You are absolutely correct that many will not be bothered to reset the gas pressure for keg or even be bothered to check the brewers specifications. I know, I've seen it.<br /><br />As for the Jaipur being tired, you might be right, but just consider; if Thornbridge Tap can't shift Jaipur fast enough for it to be in tip top condition all the time then who can?<br /><br />I think it is inevitable that cask will deteriorate from the minute the cask is vented, there is nothing we can do about that and that variation is an acceptable flaw with cask beer.<br /><br />What I have noticed with cask is the variation in opinion as to the correct amount of venting before serving. It's a subject I want to come back to in a future post, and is related to the "spunding" method. I believe many cask beers are vented far too much before they are served, resulting in them being flat before they ever see the pumps.<br /><br />If you have a perfect cellar set-up the consistency of keg will always be reliable. How we achieve that perfect cellar set-up is a problem. I think there is a future in keg craft beer, not as a replacement for cask, but as an addition to an expanding and exciting beer world.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-54663031773787842132010-09-22T11:50:07.498+01:002010-09-22T11:50:07.498+01:00Dave said "Carbonation will remain stable how...Dave said "Carbonation will remain stable however until connected to the cellar gas, and if served within a few days little change will occur. But all brewers who venture into keg should be concerned about slow moving beer gaining or loosing the intended carbonation levels in trade. Good cellar technicians are the key, and detailed product dispense criteria issued by the brewer."<br /><br />Just like cask really and probably more likely to suffer excess CO2 as the "cellar technicians" won't bother their arse changing the gas pressure or mix as long as the head fits the keg.<br /><br />Seems to me that while there are always ways of improving things in the brewery, that all beer is at the mercy of the pub. Therein lies a problem which is why I'm always banging on about quality, temperature and condition. That will apply to specially treated keg as much as to cask. For the generality of beer, optimum conditions are a will o' the wisp. Change that and you are in business.<br /><br />Oh and your cask of Jaipur sounds a though it was "tired".<br /><br />PS CO2 at pressure is very soluble in beer. It won't take days to perceptibly change. So in essence kegging, no matter how well done is problematic too.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-36857633048776998832010-09-22T10:03:11.728+01:002010-09-22T10:03:11.728+01:00Cookie, if I were thirsty enough I'd drink a c...Cookie, if I were thirsty enough I'd drink a can of Fosters. Like wise, if it had been a while.....<br /><br />Al, I believe Thornbridge are close to spunding with their bottling process.<br /><br />Ed, BrewDog beers are generally better on keg than cask I'd suggest, it's the style of beer in my view. I agree though, cask is likely to stick around for a very long time and even if craft keg does become more popular, there will always, quite rightly, be an affection for cask.<br /><br />Yeasty Boys, it needs no more than "Great beer is great beer"<br /><br />ChrisM, I've heard of a keg system that uses a bag in keg so that the gas used never comes into contact with the beer - I'm going to look at that further.<br /><br />I agree, Infra Red works very well in keg, I'm putting some into a keg today as it happens.<br /><br />StringersBeer, you can't kid me, you know a lot about a lot of things. You are of course quite correct, mostly anyway. The pressure and temperature in the keg in the cellar will change the carbonation over time, it will take a few days, but the volumes of CO2 will increase if the applied pressure at dispense is higher than the brewer intended.<br /><br />Carbonation will remain stable however until connected to the cellar gas, and if served within a few days little change will occur. But all brewers who venture into keg should be concerned about slow moving beer gaining or loosing the intended carbonation levels in trade. Good cellar technicians are the key, and detailed product dispense criteria issued by the brewer.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-9976255204049414042010-09-21T23:56:43.384+01:002010-09-21T23:56:43.384+01:00I don't know very much about keg beer, so plea...I don't know very much about keg beer, so please correct me if I'm being stupid, but doesn't the level of carbonation depend on the pressure used in dispense (and the gas mix of course) rather than anything the brewer does?StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-65438681987716849122010-09-21T21:41:30.070+01:002010-09-21T21:41:30.070+01:00PS - Dave, I rather enjoyed Infra Red at York Beer...PS - Dave, I rather enjoyed Infra Red at York Beer Festival - but can't help feel <i>it</i> would be better kegged!ChrisMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088526990457894540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-34215097992960824612010-09-21T21:40:45.939+01:002010-09-21T21:40:45.939+01:00The other thing to consider is that much 'Prop...The other thing to consider is that much 'Proper Real Keg' is served under the pressure of compressed air rather than C02, which means that the shelf life of a vented keg isn't much longer than a vented cask, and is almost as 'real'. I'm definitely a fan of both forms of dispense - nothing quite beats cask in peak condition - but a nice chilled (not <i>too</i> cold) hoppy keg beer really hits the spot. And it's not just Brewdog, Thornbridge and Meantime that are pioneering with British craft keg - Phoenix and Outstanding have produced some fantastic keg beers recently. And then there's all that stuff from across the pond...ChrisMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088526990457894540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-66813358830517106302010-09-21T21:09:06.926+01:002010-09-21T21:09:06.926+01:00Good debate.
Great beer is great beer, whether it...Good debate. <br />Great beer is great beer, whether it comes from keg, cask or bottle. Whether it is brewed at home, by your local brewery or by an industrial giant. Whether it is served in a wine glass, a boston, a schooner or an imperial pint.<br /><br />Without mentioning any organisation names, there are a group of people in the UK that run the risk of turning UK drinking culture into an environment similar to the the movie Brazil. Thornbridge and Brewdog are the Harry Tuttles of the beer scene. They may not save everyone but they'll keep up the fight.<br /><br />We package every batch ofbeer we make for keg and handpump and, besides the low gravity beers which are always better on 'pump, I find that I'm completely torn between a preference for either form of dispense. One day the engine wins, the next day the tap wins. And it may have just been the company that I preferred on any of those given days. Beer and conversation matching... now there's a thought!<br /><br />Slainte mhath<br />stuYeastie Boyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15152597924267316830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-1738080121142076712010-09-21T20:46:50.371+01:002010-09-21T20:46:50.371+01:00Some beers are better on keg - wheat beers for sta...Some beers are better on keg - wheat beers for starters. And I don't know about Jaipur but whenever I've had Brewdog beer on cask they've been poor compared to the bottled version. I can't see keg session beers ever competing with (well kept) cask session beers though, no matter how proper and real they are.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-88798584144949569482010-09-21T18:02:27.029+01:002010-09-21T18:02:27.029+01:00It is interesting that over here the roles of cask...It is interesting that over here the roles of cask and keg are reversed, and cask is the one which I prefer simply because the keg can be too fizzy. A third way which I have been learning about lately is a German technique called "spunding" where once the beer is within 1 degree plato of finishing fermentation, the airlock is closed and the CO2 created thereafter carbonates the beer.Alistair Reecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929927359428659775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-80135486607108515442010-09-21T17:46:15.777+01:002010-09-21T17:46:15.777+01:00Loving the sex metaphor.
Would a can of Foster&#...Loving the sex metaphor. <br /><br />Would a can of Foster's be a dirty regretable drunken fumble at 2am with a orange tanned fat lass outside a kebab shop?<br /><br />And will you get thrown out of the beardie club for necking keg bitter?Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.com