tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post5881185792078255196..comments2024-03-09T04:57:25.956+00:00Comments on HardKnott Dave's blog about stuff: Is it lager, or is it ale?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-37827783502952110942012-03-11T14:18:44.863+00:002012-03-11T14:18:44.863+00:00I only just saw your post. I dunno how I missed it...I only just saw your post. I dunno how I missed it. But it's not just that Sunday is boring - rather I have lots of important things to do on the computer - so obviously I'm finding other things to divert myself rather than writing business plans, etc.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-32243231937793822232012-03-11T13:27:16.749+00:002012-03-11T13:27:16.749+00:00Stringers, everything you say above is true. But r...Stringers, everything you say above is true. But really, perhaps it's a bit too complicated for consumers.<br /><br />"Lager often tastes of sweetcorn, ale generally doesn't" - might work better.<br /><br />But, your comment makes me think two things;<br /><br />1. Jon waited until the post is quite old, because he knows it would be of little interest to most people, but the information might be of interest to Dave. Of course, Dave would agree on this point.<br /><br />2. Jon is having a bit of a boring Sunday.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-74566081601144738342012-03-11T12:38:01.054+00:002012-03-11T12:38:01.054+00:00Ooh goodie, science! OK then: I'm sure I remem...Ooh goodie, science! OK then: I'm sure I remember reading that one of the things that sets "lager" apart from "ale" is the tolerance of habitual drinkers of the former for super-threshold levels of dimethylsulphide (DMS) - traceable back to higher levels of its precursor s-methylmethionine (SMM) in continental malts. SMM levels in "lager" & six-row malts can be 4 or 5 times what they are in classic British pale malts. <br /><br />Basically, something (DMS) seen as a fault in "ales" is desirable in "lagers", which goes some way to explaining people's loyalty to one over the other.<br /><br />It's <b>Quite Interesting</b> that since DMS is produced from SMM in hot worts, but driven off during the boil, having your hot wort sit from any length of time after the boil will allow DMS levels to rise again. Which may be a bad thing, depending on what kind of beer your trying to make. <br /><br />And I even found a reference for you:<br /><a href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=s9tf70Wk3bYC&pg=PA225" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=s9tf70Wk3bYC&pg=PA225</a>StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-46645664029771657852012-02-15T09:03:41.677+00:002012-02-15T09:03:41.677+00:00Good point about the generally drier finish of lag...Good point about the generally drier finish of lagers - lager yeasts are generally more efficient at metabolising more complex sugars like maltotriose than ale yeasts. Also worth noting that ale yeasts generally produce a larger ester (fruitier etc) profile than ale yeasts - even the cleanest ales yeasts like Nottingham, etc still throw esters more than most well fermented lager strains. <br /><br />Though of course, there's always exceptions - lagers like dopplebocks finish on the sweet side, often with FGs around the 20 mark (though obviously with a higher starting gravity than a pils). Conversely, many Belgian ale strains (it's always the Belgians...) finish very dry indeed - saison yeasts being the extreme case.<br /><br />Are S.cerevisiae and S.pastorianus (or whatever they call it today) the same species? Hard to know as I'm not a yeast bod, but I think there is a differential in the highest temperatures each will grow at - pastorianus stops growth at temperatures below which cerevisiae will grow at. <br /><br />Not that this really helps differentiate between beers on the borderline - and I don't think there's any hard and fast rule to do so, short of convention (which works in the vast majority of cases - often along the cold/warm ferment), and looking at what the brewer says is the style on the label.Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04244432915659177250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-50878558238080608432012-02-15T08:21:40.157+00:002012-02-15T08:21:40.157+00:00Hi Kelly, good to hear from you. Perhaps I need to...Hi Kelly, good to hear from you. Perhaps I need to check out the relative calorific value of sugar and the alcohol it makes. I was aware that alcohol has a calorific value too, but believed it to be lower than the sugar that it was derived from.<br /><br />Trust everything is good out there in NZ.<br /><br />Nick, I have also believed that lager generally makes you feel worse in the morning. However, I know many lager drinkers who claim the same of ale. Physiological conditioning or psychosomatic?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-78688911712396544722012-02-15T07:16:49.358+00:002012-02-15T07:16:49.358+00:00A nice read, as usual, and thanks for giving me so...A nice read, as usual, and thanks for giving me something new to think about: this business of lager yeast producing a drier beer. I prefer to say that ale is "fruitier" rather than "sweeter". But that's just me.<br /><br />I've long thought that "top/bottom" are inaccurate terms, thanks for capturing this so nicely. I also prefer to describe them as "warmer/cooler" and "faster/slower" acting species. Or strains, if you must.<br /><br />I personally find I tolerate or at least recover from excessive consumption of warmer-fermented beer much better than that of cooler-fermented beer. Must be the British and Belgian bits of my bloodstream winning out over the Bavarian and Czech ones.Erlangernickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564871714656285737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-40782851375278236352012-02-14T22:33:22.379+00:002012-02-14T22:33:22.379+00:00Nice post Dave,
One thing I'd point out is th...Nice post Dave,<br /><br />One thing I'd point out is that alcohol actually has quite a high calorific content, second only to fat. This would mean that if a beer such as a dry lager was to be attenuated further, meaning less residual simple carbohydrate/sugar, then you'd still be getting a similar calorie content. This is where the "low carb" beers manage to suck people in. They see the word "carbohydrate" and automatically link that back to calories, making the assumption that the beer will be less fattening.<br /><br />Over here in NZ, the low carb beers are often higher in alcohol than their mainstream brothers. This means that they probably started at a similar gravity, but were attenuated further. This would likely do very little in terms of altering the number of calories in the beer! Cheeky!<br /><br />Hope all going well over there,<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />KellyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com