tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post623606769850765353..comments2024-03-09T04:57:25.956+00:00Comments on HardKnott Dave's blog about stuff: Where there's smoke there's fireAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-12520703539920462112009-11-26T20:55:51.633+00:002009-11-26T20:55:51.633+00:00I don't actually get the impression that any o...I don't actually get the impression that any of the highly rated bloggers are deliberately doing it to boost their traffic. If you start consciously playing to the gallery you are likely to lose your distinctive voice.<br /><br /><i>I only meant that the majority of people who regularly read the beer blogs seem, from the comments on Tandleman's blog, to support the smoking ban.</i><br /><br />I have never disputed that as a statement of fact.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-60076027359678817452009-11-26T20:42:14.676+00:002009-11-26T20:42:14.676+00:00Tandleman, Tim and Washy, blogging is media. OK, u...Tandleman, Tim and Washy, blogging is media. OK, unpaid and fairly minority, but if we are just to write for ourselves then we might as well just park the text on our hard drives. Wikio, like site visitor numbers from web stats, are an indicator of how interested people are in what I write. Every such indicator has it's flaws. But, if I were not interested in such things then I would not have the inclination to write.<br /><br />However, I write what I believe in. The subject matter will be chosen based on what I think people are interested in and my web stats show that the more controversial the topic the higher the hit rate. When I write about a controversial subject I try to analyse the overall situation and form my own conclusion.<br /><br />But, irrespective of that, any competitiveness on my part, I hope is good natured and gentlemanly. And on that note, well done on getting over 100 comments Tandleman. That's good that is.<br /><br />Now, back to the original point:<br /><br />Mudgie, I only meant that the majority of people who regularly read the beer blogs seem, from the comments on Tandleman's blog, to support the smoking ban. The anti-ban people are not the ones that normally comment I believe. It is important to stress that my position has not changed from my original post.<br /><br />To put it succinctly, I disagree with the ban in it's current form and moreover disagree with the speed with which it was imposed on the industry. However, I acknowledge that the majority want a smoke free environment and the industry was too slow to combat that before the ban.<br /><br />What bothers me is the ever increasing way in which we are being told how to run our lives. Smoke, noise (thank you Stringers) animal fat, any fat, sugar, salt, alcohol, high risk sport and many other things. When is it going to end?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-77033891758016340952009-11-26T17:52:19.306+00:002009-11-26T17:52:19.306+00:00Smoking's old hat Dave. What about noise? Wil...Smoking's old hat Dave. What about <a href="http://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/index.htm" rel="nofollow">noise</a>? Will cover air-horns I expect.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-43684410889311317312009-11-26T13:32:02.314+00:002009-11-26T13:32:02.314+00:00Curmudgeon, it looks more like an effort on Dave&#...Curmudgeon, it looks more like an effort on Dave's part to stir the hornet's nest on this topic because, quite frankly, it has not aroused as much interest as the similar original topic on Tandleman's blog.<br /><br />WashyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-21350279038668627562009-11-26T10:22:12.033+00:002009-11-26T10:22:12.033+00:00My overall assessment is that beer fans generally ...<i>My overall assessment is that beer fans generally support smoke free pubs</i><br /><br />Hmm, there seems to be a strong does of hypocrisy and contradiction inherent in that statement :pCurmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-7883644979898884202009-11-26T10:01:34.296+00:002009-11-26T10:01:34.296+00:00I agree Tim. Things like Wikio distort in many way...I agree Tim. Things like Wikio distort in many ways and nobody, but nobody actually understands it. But of course we are all in the mix and it gets (wrongly) competitive.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-54256745492160209012009-11-26T03:17:50.438+00:002009-11-26T03:17:50.438+00:00Whats teh fuss about blog ratings. Wikio only meau...Whats teh fuss about blog ratings. Wikio only meaures how many blogs you link to and in return link to you. Its no reflection of teh number of people who actually read what you write.<br /><br />Wikio - Schmikio. Although I do fall outside of their UK remit now and had to remind them as such.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02316570387878262483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-2316464391221363872009-11-26T00:45:10.267+00:002009-11-26T00:45:10.267+00:00'simply by lighting up in an enclosed, public ...'simply by lighting up in an enclosed, public space, just one smoker immediately robs every other person in the vicinity of the freedom to choose not to smoke.'<br /><br />Of course that's it. Libertarian arguments, while superficially attractive, in this case don't add up.<br /><br />And Dave - Chasing ratings is pointless. It's the quality of what you write that counts. Want to be like certain other blogs or want to be you?Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-85676230530227311332009-11-26T00:24:41.643+00:002009-11-26T00:24:41.643+00:00Paul, I rather think you are not the only one. I s...Paul, I rather think you are not the only one. I suspect the sensible pro-ban people are keeping quiet now in the hope that the anti-ban brigade mumble off complaining elsewhere.<br /><br />My overall assessment is that beer fans generally support smoke free pubs.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-4886885713503181382009-11-25T23:33:18.087+00:002009-11-25T23:33:18.087+00:00Am I the only one that is getting fed up with this...Am I the only one that is getting fed up with this smoking ban nonsense?Paul Garrardhttp://www.realaleblog.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-27342717418856536382009-11-25T18:32:00.826+00:002009-11-25T18:32:00.826+00:00I would remind you that I am not a smoker, and nor...I would remind you that I am not a smoker, and nor am I going to shut up and go away :-)<br /><br />It's a bit difficult to "listen" and have a dialogue when all the antismokers seem to come out with is absolute, foaming-at-the-mouth hatred. I don't detect the remotest willingness to compromise there.<br /><br />Of course what the Save Our Pubs And Clubs Campaign is proposing is a compromise - allowing pubs and bars to have a separate indoor smoking room if they chose to. Probably most wouldn't - and in every single establishment you would be able to have a drink in a non-smoking environment. But that doesn't appease the antis who want to ban smoking even where it will never affect them.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-86611052724505815442009-11-25T16:57:31.913+00:002009-11-25T16:57:31.913+00:00Dave,
"...wanting the smokers to shut up and ...Dave,<br /><i>"...wanting the smokers to shut up and go away, they won't..."</i><br /><br />They will though. That's the thing about smokers. They <b><i>"go away"</i></b>.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-52235516931028481862009-11-25T15:42:18.384+00:002009-11-25T15:42:18.384+00:00Stringers, it is a healthy and accurate cynicism y...Stringers, it is a healthy and accurate cynicism you have there. Indeed Mr Tandleman has accrued over 70 comments so far on his post. I'll have to think of a more controversial stance for the next topic.<br /><br />Seriously though, I do see both sides of this argument and it disturbs me a little that the legislation was so decisive one way. Some form of limited licensing for establishments that allowed smoking for instance would have been nice. Making smoking the exception rather than the norm was fine. Changing the face of the industry overnight was wrong.<br /><br />Equally, some establishments prior to the ban were oppressive to the extent of being disgusting, even to me as a smoker. Something needed to be done. I feel for the establishments that made efforts to improve ventilation no end before the ban and now have thousands of pounds wasted. Or those that built three sided shelters in readiness only to find the government changed it to the 50% rule late in the passing of the bill.<br /><br />More importantly, despite many wanting the smokers to shut up and go away, they won't. The comments on Tandlemans blog shows that. The two sides of the argument are not listening to each other.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-48191433566582291792009-11-25T13:45:57.857+00:002009-11-25T13:45:57.857+00:00I had to walk out of a local boozer because of a b...I had to walk out of a local boozer because of a bunch of women spraying perfume about. Disgusting.<br /> <br />Mr Woolpack, is there any point in yanking these particular chains apart from getting your stats up?<br />(^_~) <br />(That's a japanese wink, that is.)StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-56748836900502279932009-11-25T12:58:16.749+00:002009-11-25T12:58:16.749+00:00'simply by lighting up in an enclosed, public ...'simply by lighting up in an enclosed, public space, just one smoker immediately robs every other person in the vicinity of the freedom to choose not to smoke.'<br /><br />This is the clincher for me. The ban is a progressive piece of legislation that exactly fits with my - actually very liberal philosophy - that you can do what you like when you like so long as it doesn't bother others. <br /><br />To wit, I strongly agree with those worried about our civil liberties under this government, having supported NO2ID, campaigned against 90-day detention without charge, written letters about CCTV and complained vociferously about Think25 and other nannying measures. I believe drugs, broadly, should be legalised and addiction to them treated as a medical condition and not a criminal status.<br /><br />But it is not incoherent to say that in enclosed public spaces people ought to be able to breath the air without smoke.<br /><br />I like Lagavulin. Not everyone does. When I have a dram, I don't - by the mere act of drinking one - force others to do the same. This is, however, true with smoking.<br /><br />People have taken umbrage at the 'having no smoking areas in pubs is like having no pissing areas in pools'. I find it rather apt.<br /><br />The healthcare concerns are there - debtated, but there regarding cancer. Regarding flare-ups of respiratory illnesses, they are unquestionable.<br /><br />But for me, I just don't see why I should suffer the appalling stench of smoke in my surroundings and on my clothes. Drink yourself stupid, take drugs, etc. But don't make me do any of it with you.John Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15471796457374078158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-43939518178859808882009-11-25T10:54:07.526+00:002009-11-25T10:54:07.526+00:00But Brian, the smoking ban doesn't prevent any...But Brian, the smoking ban doesn't prevent anyone who wants to smoke from <i>ever</i> smoking, does it? Just in enclosed, public spaces.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-72099994604573759022009-11-25T10:28:02.310+00:002009-11-25T10:28:02.310+00:00"The analogy I like to use: if someone enjoye..."The analogy I like to use: if someone enjoyed the sound of an air-horn, should they be allowed to repeatedly let their air-horn off in an enclosed, public space..."<br /><br />To continue with this analogy: because I don't like the sound of air-horns, nobody should be permitted to use one ever.<br /><br />I could add that if you frequent Edward's or Yates's establishments, your hearing will be in considerable danger and you certainly can't hear anyone speak, but I won't because I can predict what would happen.Brian, follower of Deornothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11941277617617928470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-69605505350362420412009-11-25T09:43:53.626+00:002009-11-25T09:43:53.626+00:00I find it hard to be objective on the subject of t...I find it hard to be objective on the subject of the smoking ban because it's a very emotive subject for me - my wife has a serious medical condition and one of the potential side-effects of the medication she's on to control it is badly exacerbated by exposure to cigarette smoke. So when the ban came in it vastly changed both our social lives for the better.<br /><br />Which is the main reason why I just can't accept the anti-ban-lobby argument that it should be repealed because it robs smokers of their freedom of choice. I'm sorry, but simply by lighting up in an enclosed, public space, just one smoker immediately robs every other person in the vicinity of the freedom to choose <i>not</i> to smoke. And why should the harmful activities of a minority be allowed to take precedence over the preference of the majority to remain smoke-free?<br /><br />The analogy I like to use: if someone enjoyed the sound of an air-horn, should they be allowed to repeatedly let their air-horn off in an enclosed, public space to the detriment of the enjoyment and possibly the hearing of those around them?<br /><br />That might be an extreme example, and it is from someone with an extreme and non-typical reason for being fiercely pro-ban, I know. But that's how it goes. <br /><br />And actually, even having said all of the above, I'm not fully in favour of a blanket ban - I think smoking clubs / pubs should be allowed. They'd have to have clear exterior signage, simply to help people with a smoke-free preference or a health problem that requires smoke avoidance steer clear, but if the staff are fully aware that they'll be working in a smoke-filled environment and choose to do so, then why shouldn't smokers be allowed to sit in comfort and have a fag if they want to? Just please don't breathe in our direction afterwards and don't be offended if we have to get up and move if you sit down next to us on the tram on the way home...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-48929381548224276762009-11-25T00:39:33.414+00:002009-11-25T00:39:33.414+00:00Just an observation that down my local the doors w...Just an observation that down my local the doors were shut at about midnight last Saturday and the new gaffer got the ashtrays out and asked us to smoke if we wished to. Only one non-smoker was present in our spit and sawdust real ale-dominated boozer and he was happy for everyone else to smoke. He really was not being a wethealth-facist.<br /><br />The ban has been detrimental to some traditional community pubs. However I suspect for the foody pubs and the wacky warehouses it has been of benefit. I am a member of a working man's club and I feel that it was wrong to impose it for places such as this. If a vote of members had been allowed to take place, and the wish was for a ban, then I would have no complaints.<br /><br />But to look on the positives at least you get to meet the more interesting customers (ie. smokers) outside, whilst the non-smokers stay inside in glorious isolation (much like The Woolpack where I am outside talking to the excellent and fascinating Alan the Barman whilst boring old Dave and Ann are stuck inside talking to other non-smokers!) ;-)<br /><br />WashyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-29195016163084657362009-11-25T00:09:37.275+00:002009-11-25T00:09:37.275+00:00I sympathise with the Big Brother argument. Our l...I sympathise with the Big Brother argument. Our liberties are hugely at risk in this country, usually in a creeping and underhand way. <br /><br />Sometimes though, things are just inevitable in this risk averse society and we may find the truth of that out as drinkers too, in due course. That doesn't mean we have to roll over and have our tummies tickled though. It's a fair guess that there are more drinkers than smokers.It'd be a brave Government that took that one too far.<br /><br />I'll stand aside now for the usual arguments.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-72677180274842105782009-11-24T23:27:10.529+00:002009-11-24T23:27:10.529+00:00The smoking ban was the one reason why I started m...The smoking ban was the <b>one reason</b> why I started my blog, although the blog has never been solely about it.<br /><br />I actually started my own poll about it (which I hope gives a fair range of options) - this can be found on the <a href="http://pubcurmudgeon.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">main blog page</a>.<br /><br />And I appreciate you making an even-handed post about it - now prepare for WW3!Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.com