tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post4589441217582786831..comments2024-03-09T04:57:25.956+00:00Comments on HardKnott Dave's blog about stuff: What is craft beer?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-87133293568948874462011-02-16T14:57:11.134+00:002011-02-16T14:57:11.134+00:00Cookie,
Of course this imaginary class system is ...Cookie,<br /><br />Of course this imaginary class system is daft. What really baffles me is that many people want to maintain it and have some sort of non-existent upper-middle class to berate.<br /><br />Mudgie,<br /><br />Can't fault what you say.<br /><br />But still, the thing I'm trying to say is that the craft beer enthusiast considers that some cask, however small the proportion of the overall, is included in the craft beer set.<br /><br />And overall, the craft beer enthusiast is not against cask. Indeed, often very much for it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-57283455920418516812011-02-16T13:35:05.686+00:002011-02-16T13:35:05.686+00:00"Cask beer is a subset, in my view, of a larg...<i>"Cask beer is a subset, in my view, of a larger craft beer arena."</i><br /><br />But surely most cask beer - indeed by volume the vast majority - is outside the scope of what is normally considered "craft beer".<br /><br />"Craft" by definition (and I'm not meaning to be pejorative here) is surely somewhat select and non-mainstream, whereas cask is ideally suited to being a mainstream, high-volume product.<br /><br />You can still find pubs (although far fewer than thirty years ago) where cask beer is poured in large quantities down the necks of ordinary folks who have never heard of BrewDog or Thornbridge.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-55338047705359345212011-02-15T10:20:14.045+00:002011-02-15T10:20:14.045+00:00The joke is that the class system is ridiculous. I...The joke is that the class system is ridiculous. If it wasn’t the sketch wouldn’t be funny. The same is with Hyacinth Bucket, her candlelight suppers and exclusive guest list are shorthand for her snobbery. Snobbery is defacto ridiculous. It could be a nice evening if it was a get together with friends, but it is clearly an attempt at social climbing. At that point you have a well observed gentle joke. The viewer waits and the payoff is her fall, her plans turning to crap at the appearance of her relatives. Dad’s Army may be a better example. Mainwaring is insecure in his authority due to his humble origins and seeks the trappings of authority as he believes they afford him class. He is an identifiable snob. Wilson is secure in his higher social class but appears happy in a middle class job and lower class lover, associates, possible son or step/surrogate son and friends, mixing easily with higher social class figures of authority that appear. This security highlights Mainwarings lack of security and we love it when Mainwarings plans turn to farce and he comes a cropper. Aspects of social class & snobbery remain even in our so called classless society. The best character in this here beer world is arguably Dickie English on the CAMRA forums. His snobbery is so perfect as to make you wonder whether he is real. Whether you share his tastes in beer or not you cannot but laugh at him stuck on a train with only “chemical fizz” to drink. If it were not for the snobbery you might sympathise with his plight, instead you find yourself enjoying his displeasure.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-80499083523461153392011-02-15T08:59:10.084+00:002011-02-15T08:59:10.084+00:00The sketch referred to is an all-time classic, fro...The sketch referred to is an all-time classic, from the Frost Report: "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYY1QGK0jQ" rel="nofollow">An Understanding of Class</a>"StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-83406439926971328482011-02-15T02:26:20.468+00:002011-02-15T02:26:20.468+00:00Cookie and Nev. Yes, thank you, I believe discerni...Cookie and Nev. Yes, thank you, I believe discerning is the word I am looking for.<br /><br />I believe that cask beer drinkers are discerning.<br /><br />Sadly, I'm not recognising the sketch Tandleman refers to. However, to suggest cask beer drinkers are somehow less discerning would be incorrect. Less open-minded if they are not prepared to embrace all types of craft beer, perhaps.<br /><br />And this is an important point; Cask beer is a subset, in my view, of a larger craft beer arena. The view that cask, at it's best, is superior to keg is a valid view point. This I understand even if I don't wholeheartedly agree. The view that in certain cases keg has it's place is also valid.<br /><br />I now think the term craft beer encompass all types of beer that are brewed with the discerning drinker in mind irrespective of the dispense format.<br /><br />So, returning to Cookies point: Yes, I have enjoyed "lout" in an Indian restaurant. I'm even getting to the point of not feeling guilty about it too.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-20656971591372981422011-02-15T01:07:36.723+00:002011-02-15T01:07:36.723+00:00"But if you feel they are beneath you, that c..."But if you feel they are beneath you, that changes things does it not?" True, so don't disparage others drinkers' choices!<br /><br />I like the sketch idea.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-76437273187460155402011-02-14T22:25:46.667+00:002011-02-14T22:25:46.667+00:00But if you feel they are beneath you, that changes...But if you feel they are beneath you, that changes things does it not?<br /><br />I think this all reminds me of the famous Ronnie Barker/ Corbett / John Cleese sketch.<br /><br />I am a craft beer drinker so I look down on him as he drinks real ale.<br /><br /> I am a real ale drinker so I look down on him as he drinks lout.<br /><br />I know my place.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-59495603128205029642011-02-14T16:36:43.945+00:002011-02-14T16:36:43.945+00:00Cooking Lager's first two sentences are spot o...Cooking Lager's first two sentences are spot on. I've just checked two dictionaries, and it's quite clear that being snobby and elitist does involve denigrating and looking down on what you feel is beneath you.<br /><br />The word you're looking for may be 'discerning'.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-30297902749917153412011-02-14T13:28:01.485+00:002011-02-14T13:28:01.485+00:00Liking what you like isn't necessarily snobber...Liking what you like isn't necessarily snobbery. It only becomes snobbery if you look down on and sneer at what you don’t like. Do you do that? I’m not sure you do, or if you did you appear no longer to since meeting those nice people at Coors. I’m sure I’ve read tweets of you drinking lout in a curry house? The fun in snobbery isn’t just that Hyacinth Bucket likes to put on a candle light supper along with other pretentions; it comes from the appearance of her more down to earth relatives that prick her bubble of conceit. The candlelit supper sounds like a nice evening, the snobbery is not the supper but her conceit regarding what it says about her and the fact it all goes wrong ensuring her conceit is justifiably rewarded. You won’t find me disputing that many cask or craft beers are nice drinks, whether they are worth the extra money is a matter of personal preference. The amusement comes from those that think it says something about themselves when of course all it says is that you like a pint and prefer a range of flavours that the wider market does not appreciate.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-929717471215717622011-02-14T08:05:34.130+00:002011-02-14T08:05:34.130+00:00Ed, of course there are a number of different mash...Ed, of course there are a number of different mash extract systems that all use different equipment. Mash Tun, Lauter Tun or Mash Filter. My point is, from the end result's point of view, the equipment and method isn't really what defines craft beer. Although craft beer isn't generally made using a mash filter I suspect very good results could be achieved if it were.<br /><br />Beer brewed using mash filters tends to be for mass appeal. Perhaps there we have a true indication of what we mean by craft; something that is not intended to have mass appeal. Bespoke, unique, niche, specialist, limited appeal. The majority of cask ale fits this to a greater or lesser extent.<br /><br />Yes, cask beer is easy to define and identify on the bar. But that does not mean that other beer cannot be bespoke, unique, niche, specialist and have limited appeal. <br /><br />Tandleman, I'm sure you will.<br /><br />Stringers, Indeed. There are very good reasons for using sugar especially in stronger beers as a way of getting original gravities that are hard to achieve using all grain. Sugars also affect the flavour, which can be a good thing if done for that reason.<br /><br />The example I give doesn't seem to be for the purpose of improving the beer.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-53102863279169392172011-02-13T23:36:10.629+00:002011-02-13T23:36:10.629+00:00I can think of all sorts of reasons to use "s...I can think of all sorts of reasons to use "sugar". But you'd probably have to ask people who know something about it, like Achel, Chimay, Rochefort, Orval, Westmalle or Westvleteren to name half a dozen. They're out then. And all those great British brewers who, I'm told, shovel in the maize and maize syrups, as well as the old "brewers invert". Shame. <br /><br />Ron Pattinson reckons that sugar is vital to the story of British brewing, he discusses it <a href="http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/09/use-of-sugar-in-brewing.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/05/brewing-with-sugar.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, if you're interested.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-80917685799051117792011-02-13T21:19:49.768+00:002011-02-13T21:19:49.768+00:00"Being snobby and elitist does not mean you w..."Being snobby and elitist does not mean you wish to eradicate what you feel is beneath you."<br /><br />I'd urge everyone to think carefully about that statement. I will.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-5475245037376412332011-02-13T19:07:06.921+00:002011-02-13T19:07:06.921+00:00Not sure what you mean by footnote 3. Mash tuns an...Not sure what you mean by footnote 3. Mash tuns and mash filters are entirely different bits of kit. <br /><br />Policing brewing methods and ingredients must be pretty much impossible anyway because there's no easy way to find out. Despite its limitations it's normally pretty obvious if a beer is 'real ale' or not.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.com