tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post2594110230403431560..comments2024-03-09T04:57:25.956+00:00Comments on HardKnott Dave's blog about stuff: What HAVE CAMRA ever done for US?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-46240732787290484032010-12-12T19:19:33.756+00:002010-12-12T19:19:33.756+00:00My wife and I attended our first CAMRA event last ...My wife and I attended our first CAMRA event last night. Let me put this in context; I like beer, my wife likes beer. I waste my time with a website that reviews the worst pubs in my home town, telling the punters which to avoid and why.<br /><br />I’ve travelled, lived and studied in North America, the Far East and Europe so my tastes run from Bohemian Pilsners, via American craft brewers to developing a particular fondness for East European porters and stouts. We live in the centre of a large Northern city. We have a friend who has a real ale pub right in the middle of town. He’s in the running for our CAMRA local pub of the year, and in the spirit of gerrymandering we thought we’d join up and vote for him.<br /><br />Having watched a Hornby train destroy much of Corrie we decided to risk a CAMRA wander. It’s destroyed my life. I now realise that I have a script inside me, as desperate to get out as the Alien in John Hurt’s stomach. It’s going to be called The Tickers and it’s going to be as big as The Office. I can’t rest until it’s been written.<br /><br />Picture the scene, a real ale bar filled with team CAMRA. Checked shirts, bad hair, drooling over the Jaipur. Drinks are ordered, not with any apparent desire to enjoy the experience. A series of halves are parked on the bar. Aromas are savoured, clarity is checked. A finger is dipped into a freshly drawn half, then rubbed on the inside of a cheek [for tasting, not scratching]. A pub full of people apparently passionate about beer, yet displaying all of the warmth of butterfly collectors discussing humane killing. <br /><br />Now we’re not teenagers, in fact, God help us I’m over 40, yet I was a mere child in this gathering. Not only a child by calender, but a child in attitude, dress, demeanour, mannerisms. Mrs Pubwatcher will tell you that I dress like a Grandfather. Team CAMRA dressed like his gardner. I’ve always regarded CAMRA as something of a middle-class pass time, something confirmed by the accents asking for a sample of every hand pull beer on the bar before settling on the first one. However, if some poor soul had walked into the middle of this gathering and looked rather than listened they’d have assumed it was a gathering of tramps, slowly eking out their halfs to make them last all night.<br /><br />Beer is about enjoyment, relaxation, noise, laughter. It’s about taste, pleasure, and friends. Where did it all go wrong ? They must have been normal once. They must have laughed once, they can’t always have dressed like the wurzels. <br /><br />Moving into Attenborough mode we stepped back and watched the complete lack of enjoyment associated with every sup. Wilde said that the cynic knows the price of everything but the value of nothing, well this gathering seemed to understand the specific gravity of everything, but tasted nothing - other than to decide whether the hops were Kentish or Saaz. <br /><br />WHO CARES ! Beer, and drinking ought to be about pleasure, taste. A social and a sensual experience, yet team CAMRA seemed to engage in the drinking equivalent of spending time under the duvet with Claudia Schiffer using a ruler and compasses to compare the radius of her left and right nipples.<br /><br />Yet we’ll be back. It was one of the oddest nights of my life, but next time I ll be prepared. I can’t resist the prospect of creating a living Bateman cartoon in the style of the man who..... This one will be the man who ordered a pint of John Smiths during a CAMRA wander. Of course the best part will be the reply from our bar’s patron ‘what the fxxk for’ ?Ski Testhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00171313421290526155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-32870611525880037712010-02-20T21:04:28.757+00:002010-02-20T21:04:28.757+00:00I'd like to add that they do provide nice toil...I'd like to add that they do provide nice toilets at both Olympia and Earls Court locations. <br /><br />I'm off to go drinking up in Redondo Beach. Full tap listing of both Proper Real and cask(if it applies) will be chronicled. I expect mayhem this afternoon. Toodles!Whorsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01784943453195129865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-45929195226819685792010-02-20T20:56:31.732+00:002010-02-20T20:56:31.732+00:00Next year they can ask Beoir to help supply up-to-...Next year they can ask Beoir to help supply up-to-date and accurate brewery information.Barry Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07367655129107699025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-27501908586439625402010-02-20T20:49:50.452+00:002010-02-20T20:49:50.452+00:00Well, I suppose I could e-mail them, or something....Well, I suppose I could e-mail them, or something. Though to list the errors I'd probably end up having to buy the book, and I already have all the doorstops I need.The Beer Nuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14105708522526153528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-29053071483183283652010-02-20T20:42:57.984+00:002010-02-20T20:42:57.984+00:00Beer Nut,
Do you not have any communication chann...Beer Nut,<br /><br />Do you not have any communication channels through which you can rectify that?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-27082439019504328592010-02-20T20:36:14.971+00:002010-02-20T20:36:14.971+00:00It's not in place to track and monitor the bre...It's not in place to track and monitor the breweries either, judging from the rubbish they actually put in the 2010 guide.The Beer Nuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14105708522526153528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-958100383051106322010-02-20T00:30:49.300+00:002010-02-20T00:30:49.300+00:00>CAMRA is not interested in Ireland and, person...>CAMRA is not interested in Ireland and, personally, I'm perfectly happy with that.<br /><br />That's not quite true. There were two motions I remember from the last AGM specifically about Ireland. One was to include information about Irish breweries in the GBG (accepted) and the second to include Irish pubs in the GBG (rejected). The later was rejected quite rightly because the infrastructure isn't in place to be able to track & survey the pubs.<br /><br />Cheers, Rob.Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-2468349293029495142009-07-30T09:27:15.077+01:002009-07-30T09:27:15.077+01:00I'm not sure or not whether there is supportin...I'm not sure or not whether there is supporting documentation for these goals - and as Tyson has stated they are goals, aims, objectives etc.<br /><br />Anyway, it's not a PLC. They don't have to specify in the way Jeff suggests.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-53203234257837398952009-07-30T09:12:37.493+01:002009-07-30T09:12:37.493+01:00Tyson
But they leave the "projected state of...Tyson<br /><br />But they leave the "projected state of affairs that a person or a system plans or intends to achieve" vague, unquantified and unspecified.Jeff Pickthallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06343140031285101096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-48744082381732966602009-07-30T00:54:48.919+01:002009-07-30T00:54:48.919+01:00Jeff
I'm sure TM will be along shortly but as...Jeff<br /><br />I'm sure TM will be along shortly but as an outsider, come on! My dictionary defines goal as "a projected state of affairs that a person or a system plans or intends to achieve." Take just no 5, for example. How is that not a goal? It certainly isn't "activities, habits, actions, functions, customs" as you suggest.<br /><br />If you don't agree with their goals, fair enough but it's no use saying they have no goals.Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-83760708375683511432009-07-29T23:50:00.849+01:002009-07-29T23:50:00.849+01:00"when did you last see an ale advertise to a ..."when did you last see an ale advertise to a younger drinker?"<br /><br />I can think of a canine-themed brewery which gets mentioned very often ...Rob Sterowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870233673933087794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-44928941290408884342009-07-29T15:11:28.424+01:002009-07-29T15:11:28.424+01:00@Tandleman
I've just looked at CAMRA's w...@Tandleman <br /><br />I've just looked at CAMRA's website. It does indeed state:<br /><br />1. Protect and improve consumer rights<br /><br />2. Promote quality, choice and value for money<br /><br />3. Support the public house as a focus of community life<br /><br />4. Campaign for greater appreciation of traditional beers, ciders and perries as part of our national heritage and culture<br /><br />5. Seek improvements in all licensed premises and throughout the brewing industry<br /><br /><br />They're not actually goals are they? They're activities, habits, actions, functions, customs etc but they're not actually GOALS.Jeff Pickthallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06343140031285101096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-35021811663036636232009-07-29T14:09:18.878+01:002009-07-29T14:09:18.878+01:00At the risk of being accused of trolling and it’s ...At the risk of being accused of trolling and it’s not my intention. My intention is only ever a bit of gentle fun. Boddies creamflow was the last ale marketed in an appealing fashion to younger drinkers, the ads with the bird now on daytime telly. If you can accept for one minute that keg beer is neither the enemy nor evil, in the 90’s boddies encouraged a fair number of younger drinkers to drink ale rather than a lager. Its lighter colour, easy going (okay then bland) flavour and the consistency of keg saw friends try a pint of ale and like it. Those drinkers, I would say, are now more inclined to try cask ales, with the myriad of exciting flavours and pong they possess. A keg ale drinker would be move inclined to drink one of Dave’s pongy tinctures than a cooking lager drinker. These days John Smiths is the national ale brand, and marketed exclusively at middle aged men. Guinness is one brand, that remains appealing to all ages, with innovating advertising, however Guinness drinkers like and expect Guinness, not the beer style.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-662870514745848902009-07-29T13:35:43.222+01:002009-07-29T13:35:43.222+01:00...and, I forgot to say, I believe it lets the sid......and, I forgot to say, I believe it lets the side down. It contributes to the poor brand image of the whole sector – and that's what really annoys me about it.<br /><br />BTW I loved D&D when I was a teenager. Don't tell anyone.Jeff Pickthallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06343140031285101096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-73202610361000087442009-07-29T13:31:51.175+01:002009-07-29T13:31:51.175+01:00Jeff is not asleep, he is busy having his dinner (...Jeff is not asleep, he is busy having his dinner (as we correctly say in the North).<br /><br />Yes , Wychwood branding , agggh, help, make it stop, I'll give you the top-secret invasion plans, please anything but Wychwood branding!<br /><br />No, seriously, the implied suggestion that Wychwood branding is aimed at young people per se, is flawed. I see it as appealing to the kind of person (non age-specific) who usually wears black, has a pony tail, programs computers and has a history of D&D. Also they probably talk a little too loud in the pub and animate their chatter with vocalised sound effects of explosions, sci-fi weapons, mythical beasts etc. They tend to listen to German industrial "music". I have known many of these people and have a soft spot for them. They tend to be frequent pub-goers and cask ale drinkers.Jeff Pickthallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06343140031285101096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-38871053840954532392009-07-29T13:21:06.041+01:002009-07-29T13:21:06.041+01:00Jeff is obviously asleep, or busy watching daytime...Jeff is obviously asleep, or busy watching daytime T.V.<br /><br /><a href="http://jeffpickthall.blogspot.com/2008/11/brewdog-v-wychwood.html" rel="nofollow">This </a> is what Jeff thinks.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-84906433400987167142009-07-29T13:15:22.263+01:002009-07-29T13:15:22.263+01:00I had to google Wychwood. Thats appealing to the k...I had to google Wychwood. Thats appealing to the kids? A nasty goblin telling me I'm scared of pongy beer? Looks like the type of stuff that the social inadequates that play dungeons and dragons would drink.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-17016943866095604442009-07-29T12:39:44.482+01:002009-07-29T12:39:44.482+01:00"Last time I looked at a Wychwood ad"
C..."Last time I looked at a Wychwood ad"<br /><br />Comments Mr Pickthall?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-67080928751933882352009-07-29T12:24:58.137+01:002009-07-29T12:24:58.137+01:00when did you last see an ale advertise to a younge...<i>when did you last see an ale advertise to a younger drinker?</i><br />Last time I looked at a Wychwood ad.The Beer Nuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14105708522526153528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-41900430699370202132009-07-29T12:22:18.541+01:002009-07-29T12:22:18.541+01:00In that case Curmudgy, an effective campaign to in...In that case Curmudgy, an effective campaign to increase the number that drink a pint of pong would be "make pongy cask ale sexy"<br /><br />This needs national brands with the recognition and trust they engender and advertising.<br /><br />If its advertised, even I'd drink it. Might even start to like it.<br /><br />CAMRA campaign against national brands with LocAle (got that off the site), and when did you last see an ale advertise to a younger drinker? Boddies, in the 90's<br /><br />It's no suprise the kids are on the cooking lager. It's where it's at.<br /><br />As a club for odd balls, I think CAMRA is great. I might join up, soon as I get a pastie in a placky bag. As a campaign, it might as well give up.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-32427170763996064672009-07-29T12:15:51.432+01:002009-07-29T12:15:51.432+01:001973 - 25% of the ale was cask
2008 - 45% of the a...1973 - 25% of the ale was cask<br />2008 - 45% of the ale was cask<br /><br />Good, no?<br /><br />Anyway, you have a point about Barrow, Whitehaven and Workington. But a pub crawl of Eskdale, that's another matter. Or Cockermouth, home of Jennings, now there's a beer town, which has much more to offer than just Jennings.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-29238745354703374702009-07-29T12:03:09.098+01:002009-07-29T12:03:09.098+01:00OK, these figures are to some extent plucked out o...OK, these figures are to some extent plucked out of the air, but I think they're roughly correct. In 1973 (say), there were 37 million bulk barrels of beer sold in the on-trade. Of those, 15% was lager, and 85% ale. 25% of the ale was cask, making 7.9 million bulk barrels of cask.<br /><br />In 2008 there were 16 million bulk barrels of beer sold in the on-trade. Of those, 65% was lager, and 35% ale. 45% of the ale was cask, making 2.5 million bulk barrels of cask.<br /><br />If anything, I think the proportion of lager was lower in 1973 and higher in 2008.<br /><br />And, Dave, you only need to go on a pub crawl of Barrow, Whitehaven or Workington to realise just how high a proportion of pubs don't sell cask at all. I would be surprised actually if cask made up more than a third of ale on-trade sales of ale in Great Britain.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-16109867896444094122009-07-29T12:02:45.524+01:002009-07-29T12:02:45.524+01:00Jeff
I agree that CAMRA are a special interest gr...Jeff<br /><br />I agree that CAMRA are a special interest group, but then aren't all "consumer" groups from the AA onwards? By that definition there's probably only WHICH that can lay claim to the title. <br /><br />I think the point is that a lot of CAMRA's aims and campaigns DO (or would do) benefit the consumer at large. Lower beer taxation, for example, wouldn't just benefit its memebers or even just real ale drinkers but drinkers everywhere. I can't see too many people complaining about that.<br /><br />And they lobbied hard on behalf of all day opening-something every memeber of the public could appreciate. So it's a bit churlish to deny them credit for trying to improve the consumer's lot. That's not to say they always get it right, of course.Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-12420952893167098282009-07-29T10:25:27.754+01:002009-07-29T10:25:27.754+01:00@ Tyson
I kind of makes a mockery of CAMRA's ...@ Tyson<br /><br />I kind of makes a mockery of CAMRA's claim to be a "consumer group". It isn't. It's a special interest group, always has been. I have no problem with that, I just wish they'd say it rather than keeping on pursuing this "consumer group" charade.Jeff Pickthallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06343140031285101096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-81300345468539905752009-07-29T10:02:27.057+01:002009-07-29T10:02:27.057+01:00Saruman, yes it was looking like war might break o...Saruman, yes it was looking like war might break out, but I think everybody is back to being friends again now. Well.... nearly.<br /><br />See you on the 20th. I'd better make sure I have something good on.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.com