tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post2183676417763619948..comments2024-03-09T04:57:25.956+00:00Comments on HardKnott Dave's blog about stuff: Group ThinkAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-26503435628048728112009-09-21T00:37:54.220+01:002009-09-21T00:37:54.220+01:00Jeffrey, if you read my blog and comments you will...Jeffrey, if you read my blog and comments you will realise that I have always believed in the law of the market - that if you don't attract customers your establishment will close.<br /><br />It may be sad that some pubs close, and it certainly is sad that pubgoing plays a much smaller role in national life than it did thirty years ago, but it's a fact of life. I have never suggested that pubs should in some way be featherbedded by the government.<br /><br />Having said that, around here the pubs that seem to be thriving are those that combine a respect for tradition with an eye on current market trends, not those that have gone hell-for-leather for modernity for its own sake.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-2157533903466469482009-09-20T20:15:36.190+01:002009-09-20T20:15:36.190+01:00Curmudgeon is clearly one of the vocal minority yo...Curmudgeon is clearly one of the vocal minority you describe, Dave. He's highlighted exactly what you've said. However, he's also right to say he's entitled to slag off places he doesn't like. The places he does like are going out business, though.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001578598975666535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-7362703204254374262009-09-20T20:12:53.295+01:002009-09-20T20:12:53.295+01:00Brilliant bits in that post.Brilliant bits in that post.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001578598975666535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-60234362981156975832009-09-19T20:46:42.861+01:002009-09-19T20:46:42.861+01:00'Maybe you should consider rebranding your est...'Maybe you should consider rebranding your establishment as a "restaurant with rooms and bar" ' - which would result in one less pub.<br /><br />quod erat demonstrandumAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-33809965912498995152009-09-19T19:12:34.319+01:002009-09-19T19:12:34.319+01:00Dave, I think you're slightly confusing people...Dave, I think you're slightly confusing people's reactions to your pub with general trends in the market. I don't see overall that a stereotypical view of what pubs should offer is harming the pub market.<br /><br />People do, however, value the "public" element in the concept of a public house, and there is a broad expectation of certain basic things a pub will offer, which doesn't apply to restaurants, which can get away with being much more idiosyncratic. <br /><br />Maybe you should consider rebranding your establishment as a "restaurant with rooms and bar" which might change people's expectations of it.<br /><br />I make no apology for there being a nostalgic element to my blog - but I accept that changing consumer tastes will result in changes in the pub and bar market and it is naive to imagine that government action can stem the tide of history.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-36626656516709983802009-09-19T17:58:04.622+01:002009-09-19T17:58:04.622+01:00Curmudgeon,
All the time. "Soup, you should ...Curmudgeon,<br /><br />All the time. "Soup, you should do soup, you're a pub and a pub should always have soup on the menu"<br /><br />Ketchup, sandwiches, post-mix, jukebox, pool table, dart board, skinny chips, mix and match menu, gammon and egg, shandy, cordial and water and all manner of different things.<br /><br />I sometimes have people being quite aggressive about the subject. It does get very distressing for us when we believe in what we do and fight hard to make it work. The important thing is we are building a customer base that appreciates what we do, we have to be determined to stick with our formula if there is any chance of it working. We do what we do and other pubs do what they do. <br /><br />I think innovation can end up with failure, this is true. I think I would disagree that it is always the case and I can think of several pubs in Cumbria that come in for heavy criticism but in fact you only need to inspect the business to find they do very well indeed.<br /><br />The thing is, the old fashioned model of the pub is failing, otherwise there wouldn't be so many closing and this is partly caused by other styles of hospitality reaping the benefits, for example restaurants. It seems that this IS what people want.<br /><br />I will agree that removing real ale is a mistake in most cases, but not always.<br /><br />It's tempting to pigeon hole you into the backward looking category, but interestingly I agree with at least 50% of what you write on your blog. Of course you are entitled to your view, although sometimes this can be difficult to take when you live and breath a job like we do.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-85973218927593493222009-09-19T15:55:55.700+01:002009-09-19T15:55:55.700+01:00"the pub industry is partly being killed by t...<i>"the pub industry is partly being killed by the view of the sceptical vocal few who say a pub should do a check list of none negotiable things"</i><br /><br />Can you actually provide an example of anyone saying that?<br /><br />I have no problem with innovation in the pub trade, but equally I'm fully entitled to slag off pubs I don't like, which often seem to be those that have tried to be "innovative".<br /><br />There was a huge wave of innovation about 25 years ago when it was considered modern and forward-looking to rename the "Red Lion" as "Wankers" or some such stupid name with an S on the end, rip out the real ale, and fill it with chrome, mirrors and red upholstery. Unfortunately, it proved a total failure...Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-1636381594026247172009-09-12T09:09:37.892+01:002009-09-12T09:09:37.892+01:00You didn't Dave. My question was "why bre...You didn't Dave. My question was "why brew your own and undermine it by selling mass produced stuff in competition?" and was a response to the "logic" of Tyson.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-3548410215427588432009-09-11T01:30:37.678+01:002009-09-11T01:30:37.678+01:00Tyson, yes indeed, mass production has always work...Tyson, yes indeed, mass production has always worked on that principle. Many pubs need to hold onto that principle.<br /><br />But there is also the need for specalisation. There are many companies out there that play to a niche market and succeed very well. I personally think that pubs are individual and need to think that way if it suites their business.<br /><br />Tandleman, I think I just answered your question.<br /><br />My problem is not the differentiation, but the objection to it that occurs.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-43618741887600484122009-09-10T22:53:30.090+01:002009-09-10T22:53:30.090+01:00Then why bother brewing your own Mr Spock?Then why bother brewing your own Mr Spock?Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-31406133835660526482009-09-10T19:59:28.739+01:002009-09-10T19:59:28.739+01:00My Vulcan logic forces me to point out that, presu...My Vulcan logic forces me to point out that, presumably, the thinking behind keeping the masses happy is that, that is where the money lies.Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-38957090765188933712009-09-10T15:09:50.325+01:002009-09-10T15:09:50.325+01:00Isn't the German place in Glasgow called West?...Isn't the German place in Glasgow called West? Next time I get back over to the UK (if it still exists of course by that point - different conversation altogether though) it is on list of places to visit. All I need to do now is save enough money to take the 6 weeks pottering around the country and showing Mrs Velkyal what a fantastic bunch of islands the UK is, naturally finding pubs/brewpubs and the like from north of Alness to Kent.Alistair Reecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929927359428659775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-83590078352593145232009-09-10T12:21:52.245+01:002009-09-10T12:21:52.245+01:00I agree with both of these comments. Curmudgeon is...I agree with both of these comments. Curmudgeon is right that since, say, the early eighties, pubs have changed. Not always for the better, not in every case, but changed, evolved and innovated nonetheless. All pubs need to find out what is right for them, or they are for the chop. Sadly many are stuck in a trough of hopelessness.<br /><br />Barm is right too, but take Glasgow, which I know a bit about, you have the option when running a brewpub there to supply mainstream products, or you just supply what you brew and make your overall offering such that people will go there anyway. I know which I'd do. In the case of the German brewpub, whose name escapes me, I'd make the bloody beer better for a start. No wonder they want Tennents in there.<br /><br />Critical mass for good beer is some way away, but I agree there are encouraging signs.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-16956977692242524452009-09-10T12:03:05.744+01:002009-09-10T12:03:05.744+01:00I often find myself thinking that my city could su...I often find myself thinking that my city could surely support more than the two brewpubs it has. But then I go there and see people drinking Tennent's and Desperados. <br /><br />Most businesses of any kind chase the market they believe is there rather than trying to do something new. <br /><br />There are trendy new bars, but the desire to open a trendy new bar doesn't necessarily correspond with a desire to serve good beer. Beer is still unfashionable; their efforts go into getting decent wine and employing bar staff who can mix 50 different cocktails. None of these are bad things, but nine times out of ten when you go to such a place the most interesting thing on offer beer-wise will be a bottle of Leffe, if you're lucky.<br /><br />I don't go to such places much, but it's down to the beer, not because I insist on drinking somewhere with varnished wood and horse brasses. <br /><br />On the whole, however, I think things are changing in a positive way, if more slowly than I would like. Anecdotal evidence from my acquaintances suggests more and more people are discovering good beer. Trouble is it hasn't reached a critical mass yet. When it does, we will see a blossoming of new-school pubs.Rob Sterowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870233673933087794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446074078505386356.post-69228287168361922802009-09-10T11:29:00.361+01:002009-09-10T11:29:00.361+01:00Actually, I think recent years have seen a huge am...Actually, I think recent years have seen a huge amount of innovation in the pub industry. We have Wetherspoon's, we have gastro-pubs, we have multi-beer tickers' paradises, we have new family dining formats, we have new urban bars in former shops, some of which even feature interesting foreign beers, although not real ale, heavily. I don't see naysayers as in practice holding anyone back. But, of course, this leads to the pub market becoming much more fragmented, and fewer and fewer pubs conform to a conventional stereotype of what a pub should be.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.com